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Jeff Sample believes employee experience starts with a simple question: do leaders truly understand what their people go through every day?

Jeff joins Jerry Gennaria and Carl Winstead to discuss how organizations can create stronger cultures by focusing less on slogans and more on understanding the realities of work. Drawing on his background in IT, software development, construction technology, and field operations, Jeff explains why empathy, trust, and curiosity are essential leadership skills.

The conversation explores how culture influences business performance, why technology initiatives often fail when they ignore employee needs, and how organizations can create environments where people feel supported, valued, and able to do their best work.

For leaders in AEC and professional services, the episode offers practical insights into building cultures that improve both employee and client experiences.

Key Topics Discussed

• Defining employee experience beyond compensation and benefits
• Why understanding daily work matters for leaders
• The connection between employee experience and client experience
• Building trust during organizational change
• Technology adoption and employee buy-in
• Culture as a business enabler
• Creating psychological safety and accountability
• The role of curiosity in effective leadership
• Why relationships remain central in a digital world
• Retention, engagement, and employee value

Resources Mentioned

• How Big Things Get Done by Bent Flyvbjerg and Dan Gardner
• The Curiosity Shop with Adam Grant & Brené Brown
• ConTechCrew Podcast

About Jeff Sample

Jeff Sample is Senior Industry Development Manager for Trades at Bluebeam, where he works with specialty contractors and construction professionals to improve workflows and operational performance. With more than 25 years of experience spanning IT, operations, software development, and construction technology, Jeff is known for helping organizations bridge the gap between technology, culture, and business outcomes. He is also co-host of the long-running ConTechCrew podcast.

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In this episode, Jerry and Carl talk with Jill Davis, Chief Strategy Officer at Cline, about what experience really means inside an AEC firm.

Jill’s work sits at the intersection of marketing, strategy, brand, client relationships, and internal culture. She explains why a firm’s brand is not just what it says externally. It is also how people inside the firm work together, communicate, make decisions, and show up for clients.

The conversation explores how Cline has thought about growth, leadership transition, rebranding, and the challenge of making something as abstract as “experience” feel tangible. Jill also shares why relationships and professional networks matter, especially when leaders face decisions they cannot make alone.

In this episode, we cover:

• Jill’s path from marketing director to Chief Strategy Officer
• Why Cline’s brand needed to catch up with who the firm had become
• How internal culture affects external client experience
• Why architects and designers may need to think more intentionally about the business relationship side of experience
• How outside perspective can help a firm better understand itself
• Why communication is central to strategy
• Jill’s advice to build a strong professional network

Resource mentioned:

• SmartLess podcast

Where to find Jill:

• Jill Davis on LinkedIn

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Caitlyn Cook, Marketing and Employee Owner Experience Lead at ESS Companies, to explore how employee ownership reshapes culture, accountability, and brand.

Caitlyn shares how her role bridges marketing and the employee experience, and how ESS has grown rapidly while maintaining a strong sense of ownership across its teams. We talk about what it takes to build connection across regions, why culture cannot be manufactured from the top down, and how employee ownership changes the way people show up to their work.

The conversation also looks at the relationship between employee experience and client experience, why alignment between marketing, HR, and leadership is critical, and how firms can create a culture that actually holds as they scale.

We cover:
• What changes when employees are also owners
• Why employee ownership shapes both culture and brand
• How employee experience influences client experience
• Why culture is built through connection, not messaging
• The importance of alignment across marketing, HR, and leadership
• How to maintain culture while scaling a growing organization

Recommended resource:
• Radical Candor by Kim Scott

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Brittany Hodak to explore what it really takes to turn satisfied customers into enthusiastic advocates. Drawing from a career that spans entertainment, fan engagement, marketing, and consumer behavior, Brittany brings a sharp perspective on why the brands that win are the ones that create experiences people want to talk about.

Brittany explains that customer experience is no longer judged only against direct competitors. Instead, clients compare every interaction to the best experiences they have anywhere else in their lives. That shift raises the bar for every firm, especially in professional services, where differentiation often comes down to how it feels to work with you.

The conversation also digs into why leaders often separate acquisition from retention, why that is a mistake, and why every person on a team is part of what Brittany calls the “experience department.” Her core idea is simple and powerful: superfans are the stakeholders so delighted by their experience that they become advocates, refer others, and help create more clients.

We cover:
• Why customer experience is the real competitive battlefield
• How brands move from commodity provider to category of one
• What leaders misunderstand about acquisition, retention, and advocacy
• Why every team member contributes to the client experience
• How exceptional experiences naturally drive referrals
• What it means to create superfans, not just satisfied customers

Recommended resource:
• Creating Superfans by Brittany Hodak

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In this episode, Sharon Toerek joins The Intangible Brand to explore how intellectual property and brand strategy intersect. As an IP attorney working closely with creative firms, Sharon offers a perspective that reframes brand as a form of intellectual capital — one that is often misunderstood, undervalued, and underprotected.

Key Takeaways

Brand is often treated as secondary to “hard IP,” but Sharon challenges that assumption. Trademarks, identity, and reputation are all forms of intellectual property that can carry significant enterprise value.

Many firms define intellectual property too narrowly, which limits how they think about protecting and leveraging it. That narrow definition can lead to missed opportunities to create and capture value.

Sharon describes her work as having a “front row seat to creativity,” highlighting how creative output is not just expressive but economically impactful.

Brand protection is not just a legal safeguard. It is a strategic lever that allows firms to monetize their ideas, strengthen differentiation, and scale their impact.

There is often a disconnect between marketing and legal perspectives inside firms. Bridging that gap can help organizations better understand, protect, and grow their intangible assets.

Recommended resource:

• The E-Myth Revisited by Michael Gerber
• The Innovative Agency Podcast by Sharon Toerek

About the Guest
Sharon Toerek is an intellectual property and marketing law attorney and the founder of Legal & Creative. She works with agencies and creative professionals to protect, enforce, and monetize their intellectual capital. She also hosts the Innovative Agency podcast and has served in leadership roles including past president of the American Advertising Federation Cleveland.

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry is joined by Jill Davis, Chief Strategy Officer at Cline, for a conversation with Neen James, leadership strategist and author of Exceptional Experiences, to explore what it really takes to create moments that people remember.

Neen shares how her work with leaders and luxury brands led her to a simple but powerful idea: luxury is not about price or exclusivity, it is about how people feel. We talk about the role of attention and intention in shaping both employee and client experience, and why organizations need to design these moments on purpose rather than leaving them to chance.

The conversation also looks at how research can challenge assumptions about what clients value, why teams need to experience care internally before they can deliver it externally, and how leaders can build practical frameworks that make exceptional experiences repeatable.

We cover:
• Why luxury is about experience, not price
• How attention and intention shape meaningful interactions
• What professional service firms can learn from luxury brands
• Why employee experience comes before client experience
• The role of research in understanding what people truly value
• How to design experiences that are consistent and repeatable

Recommended resource:
• Exceptional Experiences by Neen James
• Attention Pays by Neen James

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Jennifer Sebranek of GBBN to explore what real differentiation looks like in architecture and professional services and why brand extends far beyond logos, taglines, and marketing campaigns.

Jennifer shares how firms can create alignment around a clear core message, why consistency across teams matters more than clever positioning, and how marketers can show up as the voice of the client inside their organizations. We talk about what clients actually experience when working with a firm, how culture shapes brand in ways leaders often underestimate, and why differentiation is earned through behavior, not declared in copy.

We cover:
• Why brand goes far beyond tangible assets like logos and websites
• How to build a clear, consistent core message across a firm
• What clients actually remember about working with you
• The role of marketing as the voice of the client internally
• Why differentiation is operational, not just verbal
• How culture and collaboration shape brand perception

Recommended resource:
• Unreasonable Hospitality by Will Guidara

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Pamela Slim to explore what it really takes to scale an expert-led firm without diluting the client experience that made it successful in the first place.

Pamela shares insights from her work advising founders and professional service leaders who want to grow into larger, more complex markets. As firms expand, positioning gets blurrier, operations get strained, and client expectations evolve. The tension is real: growth creates opportunity, but it also exposes gaps in systems, clarity, and leadership alignment.

We talk about what Pamela calls building a “widest net” business, one where the brand promise, delivery systems, and team experience are aligned. The conversation digs into how market perception can drift from reality, why operational discipline is essential for protecting brand equity, and how leaders can design businesses that scale without burning out their people or confusing their clients.

This episode offers practical perspective for professional service leaders who want growth that strengthens their brand rather than undermines it.

We cover:

• What it means to scale without eroding client experience
• Why expert-led firms struggle as they move into larger markets
• The gap between market perception and actual delivery
• How systems and profitability discipline protect brand integrity
• Aligning team experience with client expectations
• What a “widest net” business really looks like in practice

Resources mentioned:

• Exceptional Experiences by Neen James
• Podcast by Nathan Barry (CEO of Kit, formerly ConvertKit)

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Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead

Learn More about TOKY & Cline

Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com