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Jeff Sample believes employee experience starts with a simple question: do leaders truly understand what their people go through every day?

Jeff joins Jerry Gennaria and Carl Winstead to discuss how organizations can create stronger cultures by focusing less on slogans and more on understanding the realities of work. Drawing on his background in IT, software development, construction technology, and field operations, Jeff explains why empathy, trust, and curiosity are essential leadership skills.

The conversation explores how culture influences business performance, why technology initiatives often fail when they ignore employee needs, and how organizations can create environments where people feel supported, valued, and able to do their best work.

For leaders in AEC and professional services, the episode offers practical insights into building cultures that improve both employee and client experiences.

Key Topics Discussed

• Defining employee experience beyond compensation and benefits
• Why understanding daily work matters for leaders
• The connection between employee experience and client experience
• Building trust during organizational change
• Technology adoption and employee buy-in
• Culture as a business enabler
• Creating psychological safety and accountability
• The role of curiosity in effective leadership
• Why relationships remain central in a digital world
• Retention, engagement, and employee value

Resources Mentioned

• How Big Things Get Done by Bent Flyvbjerg and Dan Gardner
• The Curiosity Shop with Adam Grant & Brené Brown
• ConTechCrew Podcast

About Jeff Sample

Jeff Sample is Senior Industry Development Manager for Trades at Bluebeam, where he works with specialty contractors and construction professionals to improve workflows and operational performance. With more than 25 years of experience spanning IT, operations, software development, and construction technology, Jeff is known for helping organizations bridge the gap between technology, culture, and business outcomes. He is also co-host of the long-running ConTechCrew podcast.

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Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead

Learn More about TOKY & Cline

Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

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In this episode, Jerry and Carl talk with Jill Davis, Chief Strategy Officer at Cline, about what experience really means inside an AEC firm.

Jill’s work sits at the intersection of marketing, strategy, brand, client relationships, and internal culture. She explains why a firm’s brand is not just what it says externally. It is also how people inside the firm work together, communicate, make decisions, and show up for clients.

The conversation explores how Cline has thought about growth, leadership transition, rebranding, and the challenge of making something as abstract as “experience” feel tangible. Jill also shares why relationships and professional networks matter, especially when leaders face decisions they cannot make alone.

In this episode, we cover:

• Jill’s path from marketing director to Chief Strategy Officer
• Why Cline’s brand needed to catch up with who the firm had become
• How internal culture affects external client experience
• Why architects and designers may need to think more intentionally about the business relationship side of experience
• How outside perspective can help a firm better understand itself
• Why communication is central to strategy
• Jill’s advice to build a strong professional network

Resource mentioned:

• SmartLess podcast

Where to find Jill:

• Jill Davis on LinkedIn

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Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead

Learn More about TOKY & Cline

Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com

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In this episode of The Intangible Brand, Jerry and Carl sit down with Caitlyn Cook, Marketing and Employee Owner Experience Lead at ESS Companies, to explore how employee ownership reshapes culture, accountability, and brand.

Caitlyn shares how her role bridges marketing and the employee experience, and how ESS has grown rapidly while maintaining a strong sense of ownership across its teams. We talk about what it takes to build connection across regions, why culture cannot be manufactured from the top down, and how employee ownership changes the way people show up to their work.

The conversation also looks at the relationship between employee experience and client experience, why alignment between marketing, HR, and leadership is critical, and how firms can create a culture that actually holds as they scale.

We cover:
• What changes when employees are also owners
• Why employee ownership shapes both culture and brand
• How employee experience influences client experience
• Why culture is built through connection, not messaging
• The importance of alignment across marketing, HR, and leadership
• How to maintain culture while scaling a growing organization

Recommended resource:
• Radical Candor by Kim Scott

Connect With Us

Follow the Hosts: Jerry Gennaria & Carl Winstead

Learn More about TOKY & Cline

Get In Touch: hello@theintangiblebrand.com