Zero44 founder Friederike Hesse joins Undocked to unpack the operational reality of maritime decarbonisation compliance. From FuelEU pooling and EU ETS accounting to the unintended consequences of CII, the discussion explores how regulation is reshaping commercial shipping — and why software is rapidly becoming essential infrastructure for managing complexity.

• 00:38 Introducing Friederike Hesse and Zero44
• 02:15 From startups and consulting into maritime
• 04:34 Lessons from scaling Homeday
• 07:36 Why maritime decarbonisation became a software problem
• 11:25 Breaking down EU ETS and FuelEU
• 15:06 FuelEU pooling and compliance markets
• 19:06 Early operational impacts of regulation
• 21:09 Why spreadsheets are no longer enough
• 24:34 Building Zero44 product-by-product around regulation
• 31:17 Paying penalties versus optimising compliance
• 35:32 Regulatory uncertainty and the IMO net zero framework
• 40:43 Fragmented global regulation and UK ETS
• 43:06 Women, networks, and inclusion in maritime
• 47:56 Building a mixed maritime-tech startup team
• 50:11 What comes next for Zero44

This week on Undocked, Nick and Raal are joined by Friederike Hesse, founder and CEO of Zero44, to discuss the rapidly growing complexity of maritime decarbonisation compliance — and why software is becoming central to how shipping companies operate.

The conversation begins with Friederike’s route into shipping from economics, consulting and Berlin’s startup ecosystem, before unpacking how Zero44 emerged from the wave of regulation arriving in European shipping from 2023 onwards. What started as a tool for monitoring CII risk has evolved into a broader platform for managing EU ETS, FuelEU Maritime and increasingly complex commercial carbon strategies.

The discussion explores the mechanics behind FuelEU pooling, the emergence of private carbon marketplaces, and why compliance is becoming a commercial optimisation exercise rather than a simple reporting obligation. Friederike explains how operators are balancing fuel costs, penalties, charterparty agreements and voluntary carbon markets — often simultaneously — and why spreadsheets are no longer sufficient to manage the interdependencies involved.

Nick and Raal also examine some of the unintended consequences of regulation, including distorted operational behaviour under CII, while discussing the industry’s growing adoption of biofuels and the increasing fragmentation of regional carbon regimes, including UK ETS and potential future national systems.

The episode closes with a broader conversation about building technology companies in maritime, the challenge of regulatory uncertainty, and the social dynamics of an industry still heavily shaped by traditional networks and relationship-building.

This episode is brought to you by Lloyd’s Maritime Academy.

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Claire Georgeson joins UnDocked to discuss why shipping’s human element remains under-measured despite mounting operational pressures. From piracy-era chartering to founding PsyFyi, she argues the industry must treat seafarers as strategic assets rather than operational costs. The conversation explores crew benchmarking, paperwork fatigue, retention risks, and the growing commercial value of human-centred operational data.

• 03:03 Falling into shipping via dry bulk and Maersk Broker
• 05:27 Commercial shipping culture and disconnect from seafarers
• 10:57 What PsyFyi does and how the platform works
• 12:48 Why Claire left Intertanko to found a company
• 16:05 Data privacy, benchmarking, and owner reluctance
• 20:09 Measuring organisational culture and communication gaps
• 28:26 Asking better questions and listening properly
• 30:45 Crew engagement rates and using WhatsApp at sea
• 32:23 Charterers, paperwork fatigue, and operational impact
• 37:48 OCIMF, human factors, and enclosed space fatalities
• 42:00 Why shipping struggles to use human element data
• 47:39 Linking crew data to operational KPIs
• 50:09 Advice for women entering maritime
• 51:21 Bootstrapping a maritime technology company

Claire Georgeson joins UnDocked to discuss one of shipping’s most persistent blind spots: the gap between operational performance and the lived reality of seafarers.

Drawing on a career spanning commercial tanker operations, Intertanko, and now her own company PsyFyi, Claire explains why she became increasingly concerned by the disconnect between shore-side commercial decision-making and the operational realities on board vessels. The conversation revisits piracy-era chartering decisions, the industry’s fixation on asset value, and the assumption that crew resilience can endlessly absorb operational pressure.

The discussion then turns to PsyFyi’s approach to collecting human element data directly from seafarers through low-friction messaging platforms such as WhatsApp and Telegram. Claire outlines how anonymised daily feedback allows owners to benchmark communication, motivation, recognition, safety culture, and organisational performance across fleets and crew populations.

Nick and Raal explore why shipping remains highly sophisticated in technical and commercial data collection, yet comparatively immature when it comes to understanding people. Claire argues that fragmented reporting structures, cultural gaps on board, paperwork fatigue, and charterer-driven administrative demands are now materially affecting vessel performance, retention, and safety outcomes.

The episode also examines enclosed space fatalities, the limits of traditional training approaches, and the growing focus on human factors from organisations such as OCIMF. Throughout, the conversation returns to a central question: if seafarers are fundamental to operational performance, why are they still largely treated as a cost centre rather than a strategic asset?

This episode is sponsored by Danelec.

Danelec’s new report, The Great Integration, explores why shipping’s growing volume of disconnected systems and operational data is undermining decision-making across the industry. Produced with Thetius, the report examines how owners can move from fragmented tools to integrated operational intelligence.

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Sixty days after the Hormuz closure, supply chains are straining in unexpected ways, from sulphur to food systems. The conversation shifts to maritime training, questioning whether regulation-led models can keep pace with AI, accelerating change, and highlighting persistent real-world competency gaps in new ECDIS performance data.

• 01:49 – 60 days after Hormuz: strain emerges
• 02:59 – Sulphur: the hidden dependency
• 05:31 – Supply chains as complex systems
• 08:53 – CO₂ shortages and food security risk
• 10:25 – AIS misuse and mariner ingenuity
• 12:28 – Inside the Riga People Conference
• 14:20 – Education models vs uncertain futures
• 20:22 – The AI-enabled ship and future seafarer
• 25:04 – Personalised learning vs regulation
• 29:26 – ECDIS competency gaps revealed
• 37:53 – Theory vs reality on the bridge
• 43:16 – Human judgement vs AI advice
• 46:27 – Bergen Shipping Week preview

Sixty days into the closure of the Strait of Hormuz, the impact is no longer theoretical. Beyond oil, sulphur emerges as a critical pressure point, embedded across fertilisers, metals, batteries, and everyday goods, revealing how deeply interconnected and fragile global supply chains really are.

As delays ripple through the system, early signals appear: tanker markets flip, shortages begin to surface, and even CO₂ production becomes a concern for food security. These second- and third-order effects underline a central theme; complex systems don’t fail immediately, they unravel.

From there, the focus turns to people. Reporting from Riga, Raal shares insights from a maritime training conference centred on capability, resilience, and workforce development. At the core is a growing tension: education systems designed for predictability are struggling to prepare seafarers for a future defined by uncertainty and rapid technological change.

AI sharpens that tension. With the potential for personalised, real-time learning and onboard decision support, the technical barriers are falling fast. But regulation, built around standardisation and control, remains a significant constraint.

New data from NorthStandard reinforces the challenge. Despite widespread certification, gaps persist in ECDIS knowledge, from chart updates to hazard recognition. The discussion questions whether traditional assessment truly reflects operational competence, and argues for a more dynamic, data-driven approach to training.

The episode closes on the human factor, judgement, interpretation, and empathy at sea, and how these will coexist with increasingly capable AI systems. Plus, a preview of Undocked Live at Bergen Shipping Week.

This episode is brought to you by Lloyd’s Maritime Academy.
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Links:

• Nick's Shipping in 2035 Article
• Bergen International Shipping Week

Nick and Raal examine seafarer risk in conflict zones, the worsening shortage of cadet berths, and the industry’s misaligned incentives. The discussion expands into AI’s growing role in maritime operations, from performance data to decision support, before confronting wider questions around automation, labour displacement, and human accountability in increasingly machine-led environments.

• 00:00 Reconnecting after travel and reflections on Japan
• 02:00 Strait of Hormuz, seafarer risk, and media attention
• 07:30 Cadet berth shortages and training pipeline pressures
• 12:30 Onboard realities: risk, cost, and declining access
• 16:40 Human data, AI, and performance insights
• 21:00 Personality profiling and crew dynamics
• 27:00 Workflow data and real-time decision support
• 30:30 Automation, aviation, and human disengagement
• 33:20 AI labour and workers training their replacements
• 37:00 Claude, coding tools, and accelerating capability
• 41:00 Cybersecurity risks and unintended consequences
• 43:30 Closing reflections

Nick and Raal open with a catch-up after time on the road, before quickly turning to the situation in the Strait of Hormuz. With tens of thousands of seafarers still operating under heightened risk, they reflect on the limited but growing mainstream media attention on the human impact of geopolitical disruption.

The conversation then moves to a persistent structural issue: the shortage of cadet berths. While the need to train the next generation of officers is widely accepted, the burden of doing so remains unevenly distributed. The result is a familiar industry dynamic—collective benefit, individual cost—with long-term consequences for the maritime talent pipeline.

From there, the discussion shifts toward data and technology. Drawing on examples from industry initiatives and emerging platforms, Nick and Raal explore how fragmented human performance data could be brought together. The opportunity lies in moving beyond retrospective analysis toward real-time decision support. However, this raises a more complex question: as systems become more capable, what happens to human accountability when decisions are increasingly machine-informed?

The episode then broadens beyond shipping. Examples from aviation and manufacturing illustrate how automation is already reshaping work, from pilots disengaging in highly automated environments to factory workers generating the data that may ultimately replace them. These cases frame a wider concern: the pace of technological change is accelerating faster than industry—and policy—responses.

The episode closes with a reflection on that gap. Maritime may feel insulated, but the same forces are already at work. The challenge is not whether change is coming, but how the industry responds while it still has agency to shape outcomes.

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Tom Lister, CEO of NYSE-listed Global Ship Lease, explains how mid-size container ships underpin global trade through flexibility and optionality. The conversation explores shipping cycles, capital discipline, geopolitical disruption, and decarbonisation uncertainty, showing how leasing models and operational pragmatism help navigate volatility in an increasingly complex logistics environment.

Chapters

• 00:00 Buying at the bottom of the cycle
• 00:14 Introduction and Global Ship Lease
• 04:19 How container leasing works
• 06:19 Ownership shifts post-COVID
• 07:00 Career journey into shipping
• 13:36 Managing volatility and crises
• 15:08 Capital strategy and timing
• 19:11 Understanding market cycles
• 23:28 Red Sea and capacity distortion
• 26:52 Where are we in the cycle?
• 28:34 The German KG model
• 31:06 Markets within markets
• 35:03 Mid-size vessel strategy
• 38:12 Persian Gulf disruption
• 41:02 Seafarer realities
• 46:18 Planning under uncertainty
• 49:47 Decarbonisation challenges
• 53:18 Fuel choices and optionality
• 55:36 Carbon capture limits
• 59:15 Regulation and investment
• 1:00:08 Data and AI
• 1:02:51 Leadership reflections

Episode Shownotes

Tom Lister, CEO of NYSE-listed Global Ship Lease, begins with a simple principle: real value in shipping is created at the bottom of the cycle, but only for those with the capital and discipline to act.

The conversation explores how container shipping actually works beneath the surface. Lister outlines the shifting balance between owned and chartered fleets, the collapse of the German KG financing model, and why mid-size vessels have been structurally underbuilt for over a decade.

A recurring theme is fragmentation. Container shipping is not one market but many, segmented by vessel size, trade lane, and cargo type. Geopolitical shocks, from the Red Sea to the Persian Gulf, amplify this complexity by distorting capacity, forcing rerouting, and reinforcing the value of flexible tonnage.

Strategy, in this context, becomes about managing risk first. Lister explains how Global Ship Lease prioritises low leverage, liquidity, and charter coverage, while focusing on assets, like reefer-capable ships, that remain relevant through the cycle.

The episode closes on decarbonisation and data. Fuel pathways remain uncertain, with LNG, methanol, ammonia, and even nuclear still in contention, while carbon capture has yet to scale. Data is improving operational efficiency, but meaningful predictive value remains early. Leadership, ultimately, comes down to navigating uncertainty, and accepting the complexity that comes with it.

Episode Partner

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Nick and Raal explore AI’s expanding role in maritime, from “meat layer” human task networks to personalised training and simulation. They examine operational gains, ethical tensions around digital twins, and governance challenges. The discussion highlights AI’s potential to augment judgment, reduce admin, and reshape seafarer support, decision-making, and system-wide efficiency.

• 00:00 Meetlayer and the “human as API” concept
• 04:25 AI agents sourcing real-world labour
• 07:40 Digital Ship AI Journal introduction
• 09:29 AI and the human element in maritime
• 16:45 Personalised learning and admin reduction
• 23:11 Simulation, digital twins, and training
• 25:12 Ethics and ownership of human data
• 31:27 AI in high-stakes maritime decision-making
• 38:45 Complex systems and logistics planning
• 43:11 Practical AI use cases (SMS, documentation)
• 46:36 Port operations and digital twins in practice
• 51:10 AI adoption strategy and ROI focus
• 53:55 Human-AI collaboration and organisational change
• 57:01 Closing reflections and journal takeaway

This episode begins with a provocative look at meetlayer.ai, a platform positioning humans as an execution layer for AI agents. What starts as a novelty quickly becomes a serious lens on how labour, control, and value creation may shift as AI systems begin sourcing and directing human work.

From there, the discussion anchors into the Digital Ship AI and Automation Journal, using it as a framework to explore where AI is already delivering impact. A central theme emerges around the human element: not replacement, but augmentation. AI’s real opportunity lies in scaling personalised support—training, communication, and decision assistance—bringing something closer to one-to-one mentorship into operational environments.

The conversation moves into simulation and digital twins, highlighting how AI-driven environments can compress learning cycles and enable safer, high-fidelity training. But this capability introduces deeper questions around data ownership, particularly when digital representations of human behaviour begin to resemble transferable “human IP.”

Operationally, the episode examines tangible gains—from port optimisation and ETA intelligence to safety improvements through better visibility and pattern recognition. These examples reinforce a broader point: maritime is a complex system, and AI’s ability to correlate across that complexity may be its most valuable contribution.

The episode closes on implementation. Success depends less on the technology itself and more on clarity of purpose, governance, and how organisations integrate AI alongside human workflows. The emphasis is clear: start small, focus on real problems, and treat AI as a partner in judgment, not a replacement for it.

Click here to download the AI Journal

This episode is brought to you by Lloyd’s Maritime Academy.
With over 40 years of experience, they provide flexible, expert-led training for maritime professionals navigating digitalisation, regulation, and leadership challenges.

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Nick and Raal speak with technologist Peter Rossi about the rapid shift from chat-based AI to agentic workflows, exploring practical use cases, risks, and implications for maritime operations, SaaS models, and workforce structure. The discussion highlights governance, productivity gains, and how companies should start adopting AI while retaining human judgment.

• 00:00 Opening anecdote and introduction to Peter Rossi
• 00:12 Rossi’s background: F1, SaaS, private equity, and M&A
• 02:19 Entry into maritime and Beluga origins
• 03:09 Building and integrating 20+ companies
• 06:48 Tech due diligence in the age of AI
• 09:00 From chatbots to agentic AI
• 13:33 Tiered AI evolution and real-world workflows
• 20:23 Building AI-powered personal productivity systems
• 23:04 Human-in-the-loop and risk management
• 30:13 Applications in ship management and operations
• 35:04 How companies should adopt AI
• 42:42 Administrative automation vs “moonshot” tech
• 48:29 Agentic AI and the future of software
• 54:30 The future of SaaS and data ownership
• 59:30 Decentralised AI and infrastructure shifts
• 01:04:17 What comes next: agentic systems
• 01:12:09 AI in education and learning
• 01:13:35 Beluga relaunch and closing thoughts

This episode begins with Peter Rossi’s unconventional journey through Formula One, venture capital, and SaaS into maritime, setting the stage for a grounded discussion on how technology actually gets deployed inside businesses.

The conversation quickly moves to AI’s recent evolution—from static chat interfaces to embedded, context-aware tools and now toward fully agentic systems. Rossi outlines a three-tier model of AI maturity and explains why many organisations are still stuck at the earliest stage. Practical workflows, including automated content creation and data analysis, illustrate how quickly productivity gains can be realised.

A central theme is the shift from tools to systems. The discussion explores how agentic AI can orchestrate tasks across multiple platforms, enabling “management by exception” and dramatically reducing administrative burden—particularly relevant in process-heavy maritime environments like ship management.

The episode also examines the implications for SaaS, arguing that value is shifting away from interfaces toward data ownership and orchestration. This raises fundamental questions about how maritime software businesses will compete in a world of commoditised intelligence.

Finally, the conversation addresses governance, workforce impact, and adoption challenges. The hosts and Rossi emphasise that human judgment remains critical, even as AI systems take on more execution. The episode closes with a look at what comes next—and why organisations that fail to engage risk being left behind.

This episode is brought to you by Fortec.
Fortec delivers high-performance marine display and hardware solutions designed for demanding onboard environments, ensuring reliability, clarity, and operational continuity.

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Nick and Raal are joined by maritime veteran Steen Lund, CEO of RightShip, to explore how one of shipping’s most influential maritime supply chain risk management digital platforms and standards organisations is evolving as technology reshapes the maritime industry.

Steen reflects on his wealth of experience through nearly four decades in shipping, from Maersk and global operational roles to leading RightShip through a period of significant transformation. Over the past five years the organisation has been moving beyond its traditional roots in vessel inspections and vetting to become a technology-led platform focused on safety, sustainability and transparency across the maritime supply chain- with the ambition of raising collective standards towards zero harm.

The conversation looks at how RightShip has brought product development in-house, enabling closer collaboration between maritime experts and technologists, and accelerating the development of digital and AI-enabled tools for maritime risk intelligence.

They also discuss the future of vessel inspections. With thousands of ships inspected each year, RightShip is exploring how digital data from vessels could complement or replace parts of traditional inspections, reducing time onboard while improving insight sharing across the industry.

The discussion concludes on the role of industry standards and seafarer welfare, including how frameworks like RISQ are helping raise safety baselines and why improving transparency around crew welfare is becoming a growing focus for charterers and ship operators alike.

Chapters

00:00 Steen Lund’s maritime journey and career path
08:55 What RightShip is today and why it exists
16:10 Transforming from services to a technology platform
20:23 Bringing product development in-house
27:30 Managing internal and customer adoption of new technology
31:30 The future of vessel inspections and digital verification
36:20 RISQ and raising safety standards across shipping
45:40 Measuring and improving seafarer welfare
57:17 Permira investment and RightShip’s growth strategy
01:01:20 What’s next for RightShip and maritime AI

Links:

Join the priority list to get full acess to the Digital Ship summit agenda: https://thedigitalship.com/summit/